my recipe [ clears hishroat ] [ softly ] she's right behind me isn't she? [ male announcer ] progresso. you gottste this soup. at the top of the show, we asked you, why are you awake? producer john tower with your answers. >> ginger writes, i'm up trying to compose the most convincing, clear-cut dear john letter to my soon-to-be ex-boyfriend. >> it's got your name on it and there's a picture of this guy sitting there crying over your letter. just send him a text. people look really funny when they're sitting there crying looking at their phones. great show, everyone. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪

mr. chairman, ranking member corker and members of the committee, uh, uh, and, uh, uh, and, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh. >> and with that, with the thanks of the committee, this hearing is adjourned. >> good morning, everyone. it is wednesday, january 30th. welcome to "morning joe." we've got a lot to talk about today. with us on set, we have pulitzer prize-winning historian and the author of "thomas jefferson: the art of power," jon meacham. >> willie geist's favorite book. >> msnbc contributor mike barnicle. willie geist is here.

>> can i tell you this is a big day for you? >> sure, sure. >> we've got a momentous birthday today in the brzezinski household, 17 years old? amelia? >> yes! >> 17. it's over. she's gone. >> she's not gone. >> i mean college a year from now. >> willie, willie. >> should we sing "happy birthday"? >> no. she would be so embarrassed. >> 17. >> i know, i'm the mother of a 17-year-old. joe, good morning. we have a lot to talk about today. i know you want to talk about major league baseball, though. that's what i'm told. >> well, i want to talk about a couple things. i think on your daughter's 17th birthday, i think now's a good time to come clean. >> okay. let's do it. >> a-rod's about to get busted for 'roids. ray lewis, in one of his press conferences, a football player, we find out that he's using deer -- what is it, willie -- deer --

>> deer antler spray. >> deer antler spray. >> that's awkward. >> which by the way, little-known fact, willie and i for the first three years of this show, and we admitted it, we would regularly go over and use deer antler spray. >> is that what it was? >> we're not going to tell you what we used it for. >> right. that's the key. >> i don't think we used deer antler spray for the same reason that ray lewis used deer antler spray. >> you're not making it better for yourself. >> you need to admit to your daughter and the rest of the world that you're 'roided out. that our on 'roids, you're on the juice, and that it's making you a little crazy. >> it's a lot to blame on steroids. >> it's a lot to blame on steroids. >> i take this and then i start screaming at people. it happened yesterday. >> this is the smoking gun. >> oh, peds. a-rod's fingerprints are on this. >> and i get really aggressive. i start screaming in anger. alex, you don't want to know

what i was saying about you yesterday, but we'll talk later. >> oh, boy. >> okay. >> joe, i use deer antler spray as deodorant. i have for years. >> a lot of us have noticed. >> let's get to something that actually applies to -- >> as jon meacham would say, that's a lot to blame on deer antler spray. >> i actually don't think it's enough of an excuse. willie, take us through the story. >> let's talk about a-rod. i'll show you the newspapers here in new york city. if you can get this, john. this is "daily news," "go a-way." the back says "toxic waste," talking about alex rodriguez. back of the "new york post," "void range." a weekly newspaper in miami reports that a-rod's name appeared 16 times on lists from an anti-aging clinic that allegedly dispensed a variety of peds, performance enhancing drugs, including human growth hormone. records obtained show a-rod who will turn 38 in july was connected with the clinic

bioagabi biogenesis. a-rod has denied the allegations, but espn reports the yankees and their executives are looking into ways to avoid the remaining five years and $114 million left on his contract if the league disciplines him. >> wow! willie, can i ask you this? >> yeah. >> i did not know -- i mean, these steinbrenner boys, they're sticklers. what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong, right? because this has nothing to do with them trying to void the contract with his poor performance last year, right? >> no, it has nothing to do with the fact that they signed a player five years ago to a 10-year, $275 million contract for a guy who would be 43 at the end of the day. >> but to connect this to things -- >> yeah, this isn't like the university of alabama back in the 1990s when they found out that one of their football coaches was sexually harassing somebody. they decided not to get rid of him, but they said he'd better win at least 11 games the next

year, or they'd be really offended by it. i mean, this is situational ethics on the yankees' part, right? >> it is. and they've been looking for a way to get rid of a-rod for a long time, but there is no way because no team will take that contract and eat it. they've been looking at every possibility because of this latest revelation to get themselves out of the deal. one way they could do it is if he remains out for this season, hopefully get him to retire and have insurance pick up the money because of his hip injury, jon. >> a-rod's the entitlement problem of the new york yankees, right? and any payroll. because it's so big, and it's just so hard to fix. economically. and i remember -- >> are you trying to make this sports segment boring, meacham? >> yeah, what happened there? >> that's why we have him here. >> when kenesaw mountain landis told herbert hoover -- >> oh, my god. all right. >> oops, he did it again. >> historian jokes.

>> you're not going to see alex rodriguez in a yankee uniform again. you've seen him for the last time in a yankee uniform. you are more likely, given the allegations in this report, to see alex rodriguez in a grand jury box before you see him in a batter's box. and this in a sport that has the most advanced, the most sophisticated, the most threatening drug program available in all of our professional sports. they're going to be randomly testing players this summer for hgh. that's how far advanced major league baseball's drug testing program is, but it's proof once again that no matter how positive and how strong the drug testing program is, players, athletes, in every sport, not just baseball, will always be looking for some extra edge, some players, not all players. >> but how do they get rid of them, mike? what's the move? just eat the contract and tell them to go away? >> i think the only way to get rid of him is to pretend there are a couple of clauses in the contract that don't exist, stop paying him, it ends up in court and he'll be 45 years of age

before there's an adjudication of this. >> we just saw on the graphic some of the other people, melky cabrera also appeared on the information that came out of this clinic in florida. >> all right. so we've got other news to get to. by the way, we're going to have bill gates on the show today. and al gore is going to be on the show today. so that will be interesting. we look forward to that. to hour headlines, presiden obama has mobilized a full-on media blitz to push for his vision of comprehensive immigration reform. yesterday the president went to nevada where the hispanic population is 20% to make his case for a bipartisan plan. >> the good news is, for the first time in many years, republicans and democrats seem ready to tackle this problem together. at this moment, it looks like there's a genuine desire to get this done soon. and that's very encouraging.

but this time action must follow. we can't allow immigration reform to get bogged down in an endless debate. we've been debating this a very long time. >> the president's speech stopped short of backing a plan outlined the day before by a bipartisan gang of eight, group of senators. the group which includes republican senator marco rubio has proposed a pathway to citizenship under the condition that more is done to secure the nation's borders. senator rubio yesterday did his best to sell conservative talk radio host rush limbaugh to the idea. >> border security, we need workplace enforcement, a visa tracking system. all three of those have to happen. the language has not been drafted yet. these are just principles. i agree with you, this is going to be a challenge. if in fact, this bill does not have real triggers in there, in essence, if there is not language in this bill that guarantees that nothing else

will happen, i won't support it. >> i guess senator rubio working to get to the base there. but rush limbaugh has been highly critical of the president, joe, on this. >> from what i heard in reports yesterday, though, they got along very well, and he actually praised rubio. and i think what's happening right now is you have a lot of people on the right that are certainly not just rush limbaugh but a lot of people that are trying to get their arms around the fact that there are going to be republicans supporting an immigration bill. "the daily caller" yesterday had a very interesting column talking about how some conservative outlets are dealing with this by creating a larger gulf between marco rubio's plan and the president's plan so they can, you know, wrap their arms around the rubio senate plan and not seem like they're selling out to the president. make no mistake of it, these two bills are fairly close together, and they're going to figure out a way to get it done. >> jon meacham, the president

got obviously a good deal of the hispanic vote, and he's got that support on his side. what about his sort of threat to push through his own legislation if there's no action in congress? is this more of what we've seen with the president, or does he have no choice? >> well, where's he going to push it? >> right. >> he'll push it through the senate side, presumably, or at least it would get filibustered, and it won't get through the house. so it seems to me to be kind of an empty threat. maybe there's some regulatory stuff he can do as he talks about on guns, but what i thought was most encouraging this week was you had rubio who is someone whose ambitions for the future are so self-evident and someone who's so linked to the base actually up there with chuck schumer which that in and of itself is kind of new. it's kind of -- i don't think you would have seen that a certain number of months ago. so you wonder where the

republicans, as the opposition party, are going to give the administration a vote or two. because if they don't find a way to give them a vote or two -- and that's why you ignore the rush limbaugh stuff. you let rubio go and take care of the base. let him say whatever he wants to say. this is classic henry kissinger/brzezinski negotiating. let him have a way out. let him keep the face. let him say oh, well, if it's not got this, we're not going to possibly ever do this, rush. but in the end, if he's willing to give one of these votes to the president, then you have a chance of a real piece of legislation. >> so one issue where that may not work -- >> and mika? >> yep in. >> i was just going to say, that's exactly what's happening right now is the right is trying to figure out a way out. and rubio is trying to give them a way out of the corner that thief pla they've placed themselves where they only get 27%, 28% of the hispanic vote in the last presidential election. so he's trying to give them a

way out. and i think conservatives are more than willing to take it. >> all right. so one other issue with that strategy would not work would be on guns. a bipartisan group of senators is working on a proposal to expand the nation's current laws on background checks for potential gun purchases. the group includes republicans tom coburn and mark kirk along with democrats chuck schumer and joe manchin. senator coburn says he wants the bill to keep guns out of the hands of people that are a danger to themselves including criminals and the mentally ill. nra executive vice president wayne lapierre will testify before the senate today and has released his prepared remarks which, in part, read, quote, when it comes to the issue of background checks, let's be honest. background checks will never be "universal" because criminals will never submit to them. meanwhile, this morning, "the new york times" is reporting that despite chicago's strict

gun laws, the city is still struggling to control its gun violence -- guns attributed to more than 500 homicides last year alone in the windy city with at least 40 killings already reported this year. we were talking about this earlier, joe. how do you think this is going to pan out as we look forward on guns? something that you're stepping into a bit yourself. >> well, i think it's great news that you have tom coburn, an oklahoma conservative, who's been a champion on a lot of conservative issues coming out and supporting universal background checks. now, this should be a very simple, obvious thing for politicians on both sides of the aisle to do since 90% of americans support these universal background checks. but in the strange political culture in which we live, there are some things that democrats can't do because of special interest groups. and there are some things that republicans can't do. and one of the things republicans can't do is come out

for sensible regulation. and when it comes to guns. so i commend tom coburn. of course, joe manchin is the hero in this. from the very beginning, joe has been talking about sensible gun regulation. he's in west virginia. he's catching a lot of flak from it. but joe's not in favor of gun control. joe, like me, believes that americans have a right to keep and bear arms, to have handguns in their homes, shotguns, hunting rifles to protect their families, to go hunting. joe just doesn't believe that there should be no regulations. and i think tom, with this universal background check approach, i think we're going to see this moving towards passage. and that's a good first step towards sensible regulation of some of the most, i think, most extreme weapons and high-capacity magazines. >> willie. >> and as joe says, it's incredibly popular. the american public, 90% of

americans favor some kind of a background check. that chicago story you read, the city is such a fascinating case study in gun control because gun rights advocates say you have the toughest gun laws in the country. handguns were outright banned until a couple of years ago. and yet you had more than 500 homicides, by guns, 40 this year. a 15-year-old girl in chicago was killed yesterday. but people who favor gun control say this points out the need to have more uniform gun laws. that means that the laws in chicago only apply to chicago. you can go next door and get guns or to the next state and get guns. chicago is really a place to keep an eye on as this fight goes on because it makes the case for both sides. >> you know -- >> you know, willie -- >> go ahead, joe. >> when i was in congress living on the hill, i was blocked behind the supreme court, willie. >> yeah. >> and washington, d.c., had the most restrictive gun laws in america. i eventually had to move off the hill and out of washington, d.c., because people in my

neighborhood, one block behind the supreme court, three blocks away from the united states congress, kept getting held up. it happened time after time after time. and i eventually -- i eventually moved out to northern virginia. and i did so after a guy two blocks over and his girlfriend got held up and a guy pulled the trigger. and it jammed. and they were able to run away. these restrictive gun laws in and of themselves aren't going to do anything. and we have a constitution also that allows americans to have handguns. scalia was very specific about that. it's a difficult debate. but i can tell you, washington, d.c., at least where i live, was a more dangerous place because criminals could come into our neighborhoods, and they knew that nobody had guns in those neighborhoods.

so in and of itself, in just these small contained areas, it's very dangerous. and the united states supreme court and the second amendment doesn't allow you to ban handguns. it just doesn't. scalia and the court was very clear on that. >> we're seeing people who we don't usually expect to speak out on this or to even change opinions, as you did, joe, on this to slowly trickle out. and meacham actually just pointed out the piece in "the new york times" today by james baker, former secretary of state, and john dingle, the longest serving member of congress. they write about hunting together to bridge their differences and how they both hunted at boys. any legislation broad-gauged. there's no one single cause of gun violence and no single solution. that will mean determining if there is any reason for weapons to have magazines that hold 30 rounds or more. it will mean assessing whether armor-piercing bullets should be legal, and it will mean

considering strengthening gun background checks. so the piece is worth reading. it goes on from there. everybody's trying to at some point the brave ones come out and make a mark on this issue, which i think is good. >> joe's been on this for a month or two now. does this mean if you're a republican and you're pro-assault weapon now, you think that jim baker wants the government to come take away your guns? >> jim baker? really? >> so the man who ends the cold war without a shot could eat people like us for breakfast. >> yes. >> politically and often has. does this mean colin powell thinks this? at a certain point, just the sheer weight of people who have established their political credibility over decade after decade after decade in conservative politics, you have to give them a hearing. >> you have -- i'm sorry, i was

just going to say, you have james baker, mike barnicle, coming out, a guy from texas who's been a hunter his whole life. joe manchin, colin powell, stanley mcchrystal, ronald reagan came out in favor of an assault weapons ban. in fact, a lot of people say that reagan made the deciding push. i mean, reagan was the one that made the big difference by calling republican members and writing republican members that were on the fence and convinced them to do it. yeah, at some point, the survivalist wing of the nra is going to collapse simply because their only argument for having assault weapons is at the end of the day, it's either fun because they like shooting at targets with these big guns, or two, because they want to have a weapon to shoot american troops when they believe they're going to come to their door. it's a ridiculous argument. it's illogical and has no weight

with middle america or with the supreme court. >> jon, you just alluded to it talking about jim baker, the jim bakers, senator manchins of this world, they have to be matched up against people like wayne lapierre. and the question has to be asked, among the base of the national rifle association, the vast majority of them are terrific people, law-abiding people. but the question has to be asked of them, do you think these people like jim baker and senator manchin, are they lying? are they lying to you? nobody is coming to take your guns. >> right. >> nobody. >> and in the same -- >> and mika, that's the big lie. it's the big lie, and it's what the nra has used for years to scare people, and they're still doing it. they're still doing it in west virginia. they're still doing it in alabama, in wisconsin. they're telling everybody, you know what? if they don't let you have the

high-capacity magazines that allow you to fire 30 bullets at the same time or they try to take away your armor-piercing bullets that police chiefs across america are against because they're cop-killer bull bullets, if they take away assault weapons, then they're going to come for your handguns next. they're going to come for your shotguns, your hunting rifles. i can say, without a doubt, that is a lie. that is an absolute lie. the united states supreme court in 2008, scalia, clarence thomas, sam alito, john roberts, anthony kennedy in a 5-4 decision said that americans have a right to keep and bear arms, to have handguns, shotguns, hunting rifles to protect their families, to protect themselves. you know what the greatest danger to that second amendment right and that guarantee is right now? extremism from the survivalist wing of the nra that impacts republicans' policies nationwide and moves the republican party

so far away from mainstream america that they lose the house, they lose the senate again in '14, and they lose the presidency again, and the next president will be democratic. and that president will be able to appoint one liberal justice after another that will gut our second amendment rights. it is extremism right now from the survivalist wing of the nra that is the greatest danger to gun rights. long-term gun rights in america, think about it, that's the real danger here for those of us who believe that the second amendment says what it says. >> so first you -- literally almost the morning after, to joe manchin, to a few others, to james baker ending on this note. he says, "each of us should look into our own hearts to consider what type of nation we want to be. from members of the national rifle association to the most passionate gun-control advocates, no one wants to live in a country where innocent children are killed

indiscriminately. this is a problem for all americans, not just the government, and we all must be part of the solution." we all must be. >> can i just say very quickly, that's -- the co-author of that piece is who we used to call the gold standard of republican politics. if republicans want to win elections, listen to james baker. ahead this morning, al gore and bill gates. up next, mike allen with the top stories in the "politico playbook." first bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? >> mika, crazy weather overnight kept millions awake from tennessee in the nashville area up to kentucky. those storms are headed for the east coast during the day today. we had about 250 reports of severe weather. thankfully at this point no confirmed fatalities, but we are checking on one possibly in tennessee. we've had four tornadoes. i actually thought the tornadoes would be a little worse. the wind damage as expected. where are the storms now?

exiting nashville, louisville, heading through eastern kentucky, ohio. kentucky, west virginia, also areas of eastern tennessee and western north carolina. and now those storms are rolling through alabama with a new tornado watch issued for the birmingham into the montgomery area. so we're not done yet. and if you're in that area of yellow which includes pretty much everyone east of the appalachians south of philadelphia and pittsburgh, you're going to deal with these severe storms. it's going to be a straight line. it's going to move through with really strong, gusty winds. then the weather will begin to get very much colder and windy on the backside. a lot of airport delays. also, i don't want to forget our friends in iowa and wisconsin going through a snowstorm this morning. in des moines, it's snowing hard. your morning commute's going to be a nightmare. so for the forecast today, it's going to be very warm in the northeast. thunderstorms will roll through especially during the afternoon hours. and then the evening hours from new york city up to boston. a lot of heavy rain, too. could leave some isolated flooding. in the southeast, we're watching atlanta. birmingham and montgomery for your storms and possible tornadoes as we go throughout

the morning hours till about noon today. a lot of nasty weather out there. be prepared for it throughout the eastern half of the country. washington, d.c., you could even be near 70 degrees today's before those storms arrive. absolutely incredible. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. i'm jennifer hudson.

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29 past the hour. time now to take a look at the "morning papers." "usa today," the head of the marine corps says some combat jobs may remain closed to women if it shows there are not enough women who qualify. general james amos says the marines will not lower physical standards for the battlefield adding, quote, that's not why american has a marine corps. "the wall street journal," google has begun adding information to its maps of north korea. now you can find everything from street names to the location of

the country's gulags. >> where are the nukes? >> google maps previously showed little detail inside the country because the regime notoriously guarded about that information. goog google's citizen cartographers filled in many of the details. officials at one japanese airline said ten of the batteries had to be replaced, but they did not report the issue to safety regulators because the batteries weren't considered a safety hazard. >> not good. >> that's not good at all, no. i don't like that. from our parade of papers, "the biloxi sun herald," a federal judge has accepted bp's plea to 11 counts of manslaughter and $4 billion in penalties in connection with the 2010 gulf oil spill. the company could still pay billions more in civil claims that will be filed by the u.s. government.

"the chicago tribune." a new version of the blackberry will finally be unveiled today as the once-prominent phone brand tries to return to relevance. the blackberry 10 has received positive reviews for its browser speed and keyboard, and stock prices for parent company r.i.m. have almost tripled in advance of the release. i was sitting in the airport -- joe, do you remember this? >> yeah. mika, you know -- >> i was on 'roids. >> yes. >> you had one of these moments with apple again, and you said you're going back to the blackberry. >> you know what? i had every charger that i needed except for the one for my iphone because there is iphone 5, iphone 4. i had three iphone 5 chargers that people stuffed in my purse but not one that i needed for that moment, and i was out of battery. it doesn't work. i don't need all these wires. i need one device that doesn't break that has the same charger for everything else. is that that hard at this point?

>> how much of this was 'roid rage? >> you ask joe, it was bad. i was not happy. >> that iphone 5 charger was a dirty trick. >> that is a mess. >> that was a dirty trick. >> we'll be right back with the help desk. >> a mess. and what they want, by the way, is for us to all spend hundreds of dollars on more chargers and these devices that put more battery power in it and special cases that we need for -- are you kidding me? are we that stupid? you all are. >> what you just said, willie, is exactly right. this is a dirty trick because you get the chargers for the 5. then you need it for the 4 or for your ipad. >> right. >> and mika said it -- mika was exactly right. yesterday she's in the hotel -- i mean in the airport lounge. and she picks up the desk. and she throws it at the delta person. and she says, you know what i'm going to have to do now? she goes, now i'm going to go out, and i'm going to have to

pay $100 or $50 or whatever for all of these apple chargers. they did this -- >> just so i can talk to my kids. >> it's a dirty trick. they did it specifically to make money, and it is so against what steve jobs stood for for years, to make it simple, to make it easy. >> she's going for the purse. >> this is a mess, okay? >> mika, can you tell them? >> it's nothing that i need. what? yes, joe? >> i've got to tell people now. >> oh, no. >> let's be transparent. you always say it. willie, mika got kicked out of the delta lounge yesterday. >> that was a different reason. >> what happened? can you talk about it? >> yeah, i can talk about it. >> you got kicked out of the sky club? >> we were in the sky club. >> did you take away the pretzels? >> the stuff that isn't healthy. i went and got a healthy salad, and i brought it in. and this guy comes up to me. it looks like a scene from "the office." he's, like, ma'am, i'm sorry, you can't bring outside food into the lounge. and i said, excuse me? and he goes, you cannot have outside food in the lounge.

i can store that for you. i said, don't worry. i won't eat it. i will not enjoy myself in here. no problem. he said, no, ma'am, i'm sorry. that food cannot be in this lounge. >> come on. >> willie, you can't bring outside food inside. that's what -- so i'm going out to the apple store -- >> to find me a charger. >> -- in the airport to get some more of these cords because i needed one, too. and i see louis looking really timid and scared with his head down and mika with a red face. >> i had all the bags, louis' bags. >> she's carrying the bags and doing like, ugh! ugh! she was 'roided out on the juice and it was freaking us out. >> i was at l.a.x. and there were lots of lights flashing, a lot of security folks called out for that. >> i wanted a good, healthy meal. >> i thought you were going to say you took the healthy food out, you threw it away. i'm with you. why can't you bring food in?

>> their food was really unhealthy, so i made some good choices outside and brought them in. >> don't say we. mike barnicle got thrown out coming home from a convention. >> you got thrown out, too? >> ejected. >> you're out of here! >> i've become my mother. >> and mike was very gracious as he walked out. >> mika -- >> joe needs to make a correction. >> mika, i've got to correct something really quickly. mika, you said your mother. you're not your mother. you're your mother on steroids. what do we have coming up next? still ahead, christie hefner is with us in studio, the reverend al sharpton and nick christoph from "the new york times." next, "the politico playbook" with mike allen when "morning joe" comes right back. ss! how does this thing work? oh, i like it! [ garth ] sven's small business earns 2% cash back on every purchase, every day! woo-hoo!!!

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welcome back to "morning joe." sun not yet up quite over the united states capitol. at 6:39 in the morning. with us from washington, chief white house correspondent for "politico," mr. mike allen with a look at the "playbook." hello. >> good morning, guys. >> you've got a piece up on the site headlined "bloomberg's washington footprint explodes," talking about the mayor's influence down in d.c. on issues like immigration, gay marriage, infrastructure. tell us a little more about what

he's doing down there. >> very quietly the mayor is building a big organization down here. "politico" connected the dots, talked to the mayor at his bull pen offices in city hall where he sits there in the middle of the other workers. and he said he's doing two things. one, he's using lobbyists. amazingly, the bloomberg organizations have 26 lobbyists from seven firms working washington at this moment. but also building grass-roots pressure through his group of other mayors on gun control. so the mayor is being very intentional about using the platform that he has as mayor of new york but also the personal fortune that he has to put these issues on the radar. and he jokingly told maggie that when he calls washington, they don't always do exactly what he says, but they do take the call. among the people who are tapping into the mayor's network is jim messina who was the obama campaign manager, now head of

the new not-profit organization organizing for action. he was up at city hall the other day. so there's real pressure on mayor bloomberg now to pull all these pieces together and become effectively the counterweight to the nra. something they've never really exactly had. >> well, that's an important point because he's not just using his money and his influence on issues that are important to new york city where he remains the mayor, but he's looking nationally on most of these issues, isn't he? >> no, that's right. and he makes the point that as basically an independent, somebody who is, as he said, roughly nonpartisan, he's able to tap into both sides, has credibility with both sides. and people don't realize that between his philanthropies, his personal enterprises, he's able to reach into a lot of different pockets. we also know that when he's finished when his third term, he's looking for a project. that's why people talk about, is he going to buy "the financial

times"? "the new york times"? what's he going to do? it looks like one of his projects certainly is going to keep a high profile on these issues. >> mike, is he explicitly thinking about becoming a domestic ngo? >> that's a brilliant way to put it. >> keep that in mind, you guys. >> with bill gates coming up, it's a great way to put it. and he already is because he has this fascinating life where in addition to being mayor of new york, he also has, on the side, bloomberg l.p., the business, and he has this philanthropies and these political arms. so very unusual for someone in office to also have this kind of an outside empire that they're very personally involved in. >> mike allen with a look at the "politico playbook." and going forward, mike, if you could just refrain from inflating jon's ego. >> become a meacham enabler. >> i think mike allen's t.s. elliott criticalite. >> the jeffersonian ego needs no

more inflation. coming up, our good friend christie hefner is with us. she joins us for the "must-read opinion pages." you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. twins. i didn't see them coming.

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hefner. >> wonderful to be back. >> i'm going to read joe's piece in "politico," another good one. comments on bloomberg. >> i was just going to make another point about a kind of influence michael has, which is he has so much standing in the business community. he was out in chicago and did a session with bill daly on the need for immigration reform. he's been, as you were talking about, extraordinarily outspoken on the gun issue, that he is one of those people that is bringing the business community to bear separate from the far right of the republican party. and some of these issues that used to be thought of as divisive issues among democrats are now divisive issues among republicans. and michael's outspokenness on it has helped rally the business community around some of the need for reform which i think is interesting. >> there was always talk about potentially running for president. he's got the money and also the -- i would say the drive on key issues, immigration, guns, food, the health of our country, to make his own place in history. >> yes. and i think he's -- i've known

him since his days on just the media side, and there's no question that he wants to stay engaged in these issues more than actually he wants to go back into the private sector side. >> interesting. all right. joe, i'm reading your piece out of "politico." why won't washington address long-term debt, you ask? maybe barack obama and republicans in congress are incapable of addressing the united states' long-term debt while avoiding the kind of harsh austerity measures that have led to a triple-dip recession in great britain. erskine bowles, former president clinton's chief of staff, has spent the last three years of his life warning of a coming financial crash if washington continues its reckless ways in dealing with medicare and medicaid. as bowles explains to audiences across the country, his prognosis is not based on ideology. it is instead a simple matter of math. and make no mistake. that simple arithmetic will doom the economic future of liberals,

conservatives and independents alike unless washington starts planning for the future now. and yet we still get so much reaction, joe, from the segment that we did here on the set the other day with paul krugman. >> we had a great -- i thought we had a great conversation with paul krugman. and i was fascinated by his view, his world view. the thing that's frustrating, though, for me following that, and it's ironic because paul krugman said that actually politicians in washington can't walk and chew gum at the same time. i find that a lot of people that read and follow him can't walk and chew gum at the same time. and i don't think that has anything to do with people that are devotees of paul krugman. i just think americans have a hard time grasping that you can take care of long-term debt. that you can worry about what's going to happen 10, 15, 0 ye20 s from now without taking a david cameron-style approach. and christie hefner, it seems to me, that's the sort of nuanced

balancing act that washington is incapable of, that paul krugman said washington was incapable of, but we can't even have these conversations about taking care of medicare and medicaid and social security and massive defense outlays over the next 20, 30 years. while still investing in the short run on education, r&d, infrastructure, the sort of things that will grow this economy, the sort of things that are investments in the future that help us grow economically right now. can't we do both, christie? >> i think we have to do both. i think it's certainly what john podesta and the center for american progress have argued for from the beginning, which is a balance add approach. and your point, joe, which is that there's a difference between investment and expense. and those of us who believe government has a critical role to play have to be for smart government. and i think that this election may be something of a turning point in that instead of arguing about whether there is a role for government and whether government is the problem, we now see whether it's around an issue like immigration or whether it's around the fiscal

issues, the necessity of looking to government for leadership in terms of what will actually create a fair playing field, and that's about tax reform. that's about a balance between growth-oriented policies and appropriate spending cuts. >> joe? >> you know, there are things, jon meacham, that even conservatives, small-government conservatives, can support that, again, take care of these things. we can look at medicare. we can look at medicaid. but we don't have to slash spending on pell grants. and when you look at the budget our infrastructure, you look at the budget, right now discretionary dmomestic spending -- i don't want to bore people, but that's an area that makes up those sort of investments that grow the economy. that only takes up about 10 to 12% of our budget now. defense, entitlements and servicing the national debt take up the vast majority of the other 80%, 85%. so we can invest and still be

fiscally prudent and take care of our long-term obligations now. >> you know, facts are stubborn things. when we talk about big-spending government, what we're really talking about is not on poor people, not on students, not on -- we're talking about us. we're all what jonathan roush called, we're in the middle of demo sclerosis. we are all an interest group. i want the home mortgage deduction, willie wants the war deduction. we all want something. and mostly it's above the -- you're right -- 15% to 20% of the discretionary spending. and so without the big thing, we're sort of not hunting where the ducks are when we talk about the smaller domestic programs. still a lot of money but we're all complicit in this. >> christie -- >> and you're not going to balance the budget, mika, by

slashing spending, cutting big bird expenses of the national endowment of the arts. there are all these things highly symbolic to people on the right. i say forget about symbolism. let's start talking about -- as jon said, let's hunt where the ducks are. that's in the entitlement programs. that's in national defense. that's in tax reform. and we can do those things, like i said, and be wise and plan ahead and not bury our heads in the sand and not obsess about what the deficit's going to be the next year or two, that worry about what the long-term debt's going to be 10, 15, 20 years from now. that's what bowles has been saying. he's been saying don't worry about the short-term deficits. >> and what's the relationship between the -- what's the relationship between the cost of the debt and the size of the economy? because that's actually the key. it isn't the absolute amount of the debt. it's what is the debt service which right now is actually quite low because interest rates are so low as a proportion of the economy. it is a more complex formula. >> yeah. but as erskine bowles says and

simpson says as well, you bring up an absolutely fantastic point. right now a big chunk of our budget is going to servicing the debt. and that's happening when we have historically low interest rates. if interest rates go back to what they've been on average, let's say they go back to 5%, 6%, 7% -- >> it's very different. >> you know, we'll be facing an economic apocalypse. we'll be talking about at least $1 trillion in additional debt for servicing the national debt right now. we're paying a lot on the debt right now when we have historically low interest rates. and this whole idea that we don't plan ahead, that we just hope everything turns out all right, you've got to take the rose-colored glasses off there. it's just not going to work that way, mika. we have to hope for the best. we have to prepare for the worst in the long run. and right now the numbers are looking pretty bad in the long run. >> christie hefner, can you stick around for a block or two? >> i'd be happy to. just ahead, al gore and bill

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coming up, reverend al sharpton joins us on the set next. "morning joe" is back in a moment. [ female announcer ] when a woman wears a pad

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>> welcome back to "morning joe." that was the president pushing immigration reform which we'll talk about in just a minute. right now jon meacham and christie hefner are still with us. and joining the table, we have the host of msnbc's "politics nation," reverend al sharpton. good to have you all on. >> good morning. >> good morning. how are you doing, reverend al? how's the diet? >> very well. >> the brzezinski diet. i mean, look at this. >> it's an ongoing, endless, forever process. good health. >> canyon ranch with whom i work in taking their brand and content around healthy living and extending it has this wonderful expression, which is diet is a noun, not a verb. >> exactly. >> i like that. >> healthy living. >> i actually have them in my book coming up. they're great. >> we should get you out there, actually. >> i need to go. let's get to the news. and joe, we're going to start with guns, if that's okay.

a bipartisan group of senators working on a proposal to expand the current laws on background checks for potential gun purchases. the group includes republicans tom coburn and mark kirk along with democrats chuck schumer and joe manchin. senator coburn says he wants the bill to keep guns out of the hands of the people that are a danger to themselves including criminals and the mentally ill. nra executive vice president wayne lapierre will testify before the senate today and has released his prepared remarks which, in part, read, quote, when it comes to the issue of background checks, let's be honest. background checks will never be universal because criminals will never submit to them. meanwhile this morning "the new york times" is reporting that despite chicago's strict gun laws including bans on assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, the city is still struggling to control its gun violence. guns contributed to more than 500 homicides last year in the windy city with at least 40 killings already reported this

year including seven on saturday alone. just last week, 124 unpermitted guns were confiscated on the city streets. the rate of weapons seizures far outpaces that of new york city. joe, i'll throw it to you, and christie, obviously, is from chicago and probably has some things to say about this as well. >> yeah. you know, i want to start with, i think, the news off the top coming out of washington, and that is that there's a bipartisan group that's now talking about universal background checks. you've got tom coburn from oklahoma, mark kirk from illinois, two republicans, and then you've got joe manchin from west virginia and out of new york you have chuck schumer. you have a very diverse group, ideologically and also geographically that, i think, are doing the right thing. you know, other politicians need to read the polls. almost nine out of ten americans support universal background

checks for the reason that tom coburn supports universal background checks. it just makes sense. keep the guns out of the hands of the mentally ill. keep the guns out of criminals' hands. and you do the best you can do. there's always this absolutist argument coming from the nra which is, well, we're never going to be able to keep guns out of all criminals' hands. that's just loser thinking. that sort of loser thinking would have had us going off into a corner as a nation and curl up, you know, in a fetal position after 9/11 and say there's nothing we can do to stop all terrorist attacks. so why do we try anything at all? that's been the nra argument, mika, for years. it just doesn't work anymore. americans are fed up. and i think not only what's happening in chicago, but also what happened in newtown and what's happening across america, it's been happening across america for years. going to get americans

continuing to move in the direction of sensible regulation. and when you have tom coburn, mark kirk, james baker, scalia, ronald reagan talking about how it's not unconstitutional to regulate more extreme elements of the gun culture, well, it's kind of hard for the survivalist wing of the nra to call out these people saying they want to take away guns. they just don't. >> christie, actually, now they're talking about -- and it makes you just want to put your head in your hands and say what is going on, they're talking about arming the schools, and it actually may be necessary some in cases. i don't know. i'm willing to debate it. the fact that we're here is we haven't looked at this in terms of how to make our society a safe one, a dignified society that respects on all levels what needs to be done to keep our children safe. >> i think we're clearly at a different place than we've been before in this discussion, having worked on this issue since the '70s. and the polls show that. and part of why i think that

that's a very good thing is a point willie made earlier, which is if it's not universal approaches to this problem of gun violence, we're going to have pockets of laws that are not consistent with surrounding areas which doesn't really help us get to where we want to get to. now, that's not to say that through gun laws themselves, that's enough. so in the city of chicago, i think one of the issues that the mayor is facing is what are the right police strategies? and i think that they are looking at what was done, what is done and what works. and for mayor emanuel, this is both an issue that he cares about but it's also a very important political issue in terms of his future, so it's going to get a lot of attention. i would also say that we less than we should know because among other things the nra is not political helpful is to stop research into what works and doesn't work, which we used to fund. and if we could go back to actually getting evidence-based

approaches, that would be a very positive thing. >> not only the research -- yeah, not only the research, but also actually enforcement, aggressive enforcement of the gun laws. >> serious sanctions. >> what's on the books gets enforced. and the federal government hasn't for years. and reverend sharpton, help me out here. i know you've been following chicago very closely. what is the difference between new york city that had one of the lowest -- i think one of their lowest murder rates in the history of the city since they've been recording these stats, and chicago, which is just exploding with violence and murder? >> well, one thing i would say is i would agree with christie. i think that to just shoot from the hip and say what the difference is would be irresponsible. we need to do the research on that. i think that it is right when you say it's universal. i was reading "the new york times"er er tstory today, and one of the things that they made clear that i happen to agree with you, joe, is that the laws

are there, the enforcement, the aggressive enforcement of the laws is not there. but i agree that it has to be universal. you can't buy guns in chicago, but you can buy them right outside of chicago. and they're confiscating guns at enormous rates that they've never seen. i remember when i was a kid. i used to go to chicago on civil rights work. and we had gang problems then. but because you didn't have the guns, you didn't have the murders you have now. a lady just buried a fourth child this weekend, all four killed by gunfire. the shame there is that we let it go 500 murders before the nation looked at chicago. it took newtown to look at chicago. we need to deal with it, and we need to deal with it across political lines, and i think it's important. >> to be honest, i think it's partly because where are those murders occurring that we don't pay enough attention to? >> that's the truth exactly. >> because it is a great city, it is a highly segregated city with pockets of intense poverty, with little prospect for people to get out of those neighborhoods.

so you've got societal factors that you have to take into account as well. we've got 33 americans a day being killed by guns. this is an epidemic. >> but it's like those people didn't matter. and i'd love to see the bipartisan thing -- i'd love to see -- i'd do things with joe. we need to show americans coming together, everybody's life matters. >> joe, jump in. >> christie, what is the difference between chicago and new york city? i mean, there is a serious problem in chicago that we don't have in new york. what is the difference? >> there is a school of thought that the mayor and the police commissioner are rethinking how they allocate police resources in terms of the neighborhoods and how the police interact in the neighborhoods. it is different than it was under mayor daley, and there is some view that that that is being reevaluateded. time will tell. >> christie, what does that mean? >> it has to do with the combination of how we use the sort of technology to allocate

resources following 911 calls, 311 calls, but also where the police actually are in the neighborhoods on the street. and we've changed that. >> has there been a considerable rise since rahm emanuel has become mayor? >> no, there's been a reallocation, and it's less on the street than it was. and i think that they are reevaluating that based on the fact that -- >> no, no. >> violence? >> a rise in murders. >> yes. >> i'm not pointing my fingers at rahm. i've trying to figure out, have things changed since mayor daley has left? >> yes, it's gotten worse. >> under rahm, has he allocated resources differently? there is an epidemic going on in chicago that's not going on in new york city. these two cities are going in completely opposite directions. we read about chicago every day. we hear about the horrors of chicago every day. what's going on there? so get really specific. what are they doing in chicago now that may be causing these

problems? >> well, to answer the question about is it higher? yes. last year we hit a record number of murders from guns. and this year we are already outpacing last year's numbers. now, there are contributing factors that are not under anybody's control and may seem odd, but it is factually true. one of them is actually the weather. there is a dramatic increase in gun violence when it is warmer. and we are having this climate change effect that is driving that. but i do think -- and from people i talked to in chicago-- >> christie, can i just stop you and say conservative bloggers across america, thank you for saying that climate change is responsible for the rising murder rates in chicago. you have just made a lot of people in their basements of their mothers' homes very happy. >> i don't believe that's exactly what i said. i said there are a number of contributing factors and a correlation between heat waves and gun violence. there has been a different

approach to policing since mayor emanuel was elected. and there is a theory -- but back to the point of we need to get facts -- there is a theory that that is demonstrably less effective, and that is being reexamined right now. >> i think it's fascinating. actually, the heat wave aspect of this, i remember as a reporter in hartford, we'd always gear up when it started getting hot. and then it would explode. >> it could be gang warfare and specific situations. >> also issues in context in terms of laws. in my personal opinion, we have yet to put together a sound and sane approach in terms of drug laws. so as long as we continue to criminalize activity that then will increase criminal activity around it, that's not going to be helpful. and that's part of the issue in the big cities is the inner section of drug activity, not very smart drug laws and violence. >> joe. >> but i keep going back to new

york city because the same drug laws that apply in chicago apply in new york city. new york city had one of the lowest murder rates in its history. and in fact, we just went through a stretch, if i'm not mistaken, a couple of weeks ago, it was the longest stretch ever recorded without any murders in new york city. we're going in completely different directions. that's why it's almost like looking at east germany and west germany. west germany, it was almost like a perfect experiment for what worked economically and what didn't work economically because you had the same culture and the west was thriving. the east was collapsing. here you've got new york city and chicago, two huge urban centers in the north. and they're going in completely opposite directions. if we want to figure out how to save lives, al sharpton, in those two cities, we can't just look at national legislation, whether it's guns or whether it's -- whether it's drug laws or whatever it is.

we've got to see what new york city's doing right and what chicago is doing wrong. and that seems to me, it's got to be urgent, and it's got to be the top priority of people in chicago to figure out what they've gotten wrong and how they can turn it around and start cushing the violence there. >> no, i agree. i think one of the things that we do in new york differently is across all of the lines of politics and differences. everyone works toward this whole gun violence thing. we started doing buyback problems at national action network with the police commissioner even though we were arguing and fighting with him and still doing stop and terrififrisk. and i think we've got to lower these boundaries and saying that everyone has to come together. i don't know that that's happened in chicago. we have a group there, but i don't know that it's happening. but when you can have a bloomberg and those of us critical of him work together and start dealing with it, you know, the weather is one thing, but people can't use guns, warm

or cold, if the guns are not there. >> yes. >> we've got to get the heat out of people's house, not to say that i hope it doesn't get too hot outside. >> no, and obviously i wasn't saying that. i also think it's become an issue that frankly is impacting the business community which tends to then bring the politicians to the table. because the truth is that the people who are losing their children are not the people with political power. but if you have an environment in which business is hesitant to relocate headquarters in the city because of these issues, then you're going to get people's attention. that's a terrible thing to say, but that is simply the political reality. >> christie hefner, thank you so much. it's great to see you. >> always great to be here. >> reverend al, thank you as well. >> thank you. still ahead, bill gates will be here on set. and coming up next, former vice president al gore joins us here in the studio. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. all stations come over to mission a for a final go.

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all right. here we are. getting ready. are we all set? here with us now, former vice president, al gore. he's the author of the new book "the future: six drivers of global change." and it is great to have you on the set this morning. >> good morning. great to be here. >> a lot to talk about. you're in the news a lot lately with all your business dealings and acquisitions and sales. and you edited his book? >> no, i just applied a chamois cloth. >> it was great to have jon as my editor. >> yeah? >> as the vice president will tell you, there's some moments where a beautiful mind seemed relevant. i've never seen anyone, never worked with anyone who was as well organized and as tireless. >> oh, really? >> it's just remarkable.

it's a formidable piece of work. >> okay. let's talk about the future. you lay out a number of different factors that you think will be driving change in the future. let's talk about them. >> yeah. >> where would you like to begin, mr. vice president? >> one place to begin is by noting that this is the first time in history that we have had so many revolutionary changes happening simultaneously. the digital revolution is connecting all of the 7 billion people in the world, at least 5 billion now, connected in various ways. and not only to one another but to intelligent machines and devices. the genetic engineering revolution is leading to the crossing of boundaries between species, the selection of traits including in human beings that puts us in active control of evolution.

we're seeing not only the globalization of the economy but the deep interconnection of productive activities all over the world producing earth ink which has a new relationship to labor and capital and natural resources and nation states. we're seeing the rise of china and the shift of power from west to east and distributed to emerging centers of power all around the world. and we're seeing a continuing commitment to a particular curiously defined form of growth that excludes a lot of things from its calculations. we ignore pollution. we ignore resource depletion. we ignore the distribution of income and the rising inequality and the hollowing out of the middle class. we're seeing the advanced automation that's now going into a steep rise that really changes

the relationship between technology and labor in ways that are fundamentally different th than in the past. and then finally, we have the climate crisis and the emergent energy revolution because of the need to stop dumping all this global warming pollution into the atmosphere. >> let's start there because the fight against climate change is often a debate. and i'm going to read from "the future," your words. and you say this about oil and the media. "virtually every news and political commentary program on television is sponsored in part by oil, coal and gas companies -- not just during campaign seasons -- but all the time, year in and year out with messages designed to soothe and reassure the audience that everything is fine, the global environment is not threatened, and the carbon companies are working diligently to further develop renewable energy sources." a little bit of a ruse being played on our society overall? >> well, when you see all these

ads for coal and oil, they're not designed to get you to say hey, i want to go down to the corner and buy some coal. >> right. >> they're designed to condition your political beliefs and to give you the impression that they've got our back. and look, they have -- there are about $27 trillion in subprime carbon assets when you include public companies, private companies and sovereign states. and they depend upon the ability to continue using the earth's atmosphere as an open sewer. the problem is we put 90 million tons of global warming pollution up there every day. >> right. >> and it traps enough extra

energy to equal 400,000 her row she hiroshima atomic bombs going off every day. it's a big planet, but that is what contributed to superstorm sandy. that's what contributed to 60% of the country being in a drought last year. $110 billion worth of climate-related disasters. yesterday in queensland, australia, they had 2 1/2 feet of rain. the greater evaporation from the heat off the oceans fills the sky with much more water vapor so that when a storm releases it, we get these giant floods. my home city of nashville, two years ago, thousands of mine and jon's, too, thousands of our neighbors lost their homes and businesses and had no flood insurance because it had never flooded there. it was a so-called once in a thousand-year event. we're having once in a thousand-year events in a lot of places every few years now. and the fires in the west, half

of the north polar ice cap is gone in summer. and the rest is going to be gone soon. it's literally insane for us to continue on this path. but all of these factors are interconnect. and one of the main themes of this book is that we have two large and powerful tools to use in shaping our future. one is democracy. one is capitalism. but both have been hacked. and both are in need of reform. >> it's also choices we make. my brother is in sweden and is desperate for me to come there and see the glaciers that are melting. so i understand what you're saying on many levels. i have to challenge you a little bit, though, and ask this question. >> sure. >> you just sold current tv to al jazeera which is funded by qatar, which is funded by oil. is it okay, then, for you personally to -- i'd say profit from oil? >> well, i see it differently.

i understand the criticism, of course, but al jazeera has long since established itself as a really high-quality news-gathering network. and i think the addition of al jazeera to the u.s. media landscape will be a big net plus. and by the way, their climate coverage is far more extensive and high quality compared to any other network in the u.s. >> but isn't there a moral question there that you had to contend with? because that money that basically funded al jazeera is funded by oil? >> i understand what you're saying. i strongly disagree with it. because they have established themselves as an award-winning, high-quality network. now, qatar is our strongest ally in the arab world. their fleet is there. they have been working very closely with the u.s. secretary clinton said al jazeera is part of the solution, not part of the problem.

they also have a very ambitious plan to shift to renewables. there is a visionary plan to connect the middle east and north africa with solar and wind resources to western europe. the world is changing. and we are part of a global media landscape now. and getting points of view that are not just the same is a good thing. we went through 2012, mika, with all of the climate-related disasters that i just mentioned without a single question being asked by any member of the american news media to any of the presidential candidates in any of the debates about the climate crisis. that is pathetic. >> joe, jump in. >> yeah. mr. vice president, one of the changes you talked about is one that has fascinated me and deeply disturbed me and mainly

because there doesn't seem to be any easy answer to this question, and that is how do we deal with the changing relationship between technology and labor? how do we deal with the hollowed-out middle class? how do we deal with the fact that, as you said, technology is zooming forward more quickly than ever. and if you just go back to the year that you were elected vice president of the united states in 1992, if technology had stayed static from that point forward to now, there would be, like, 20 million, 25 million more people working in america. how do politicians answer the question of how we deal with this moving forward without hollowing out the middle class for the next generation? >> well, joe, a very incisive question, and i'm glad you focused in on that. it is one of the major themes. when i was elected vice president, went into the white house, there were 48, 49 sites on the entire worldwide web.

and now, of course, there are a trillion websites. and a lot of those changes we look at as very positive things. i certainly do. but when it comes to what you're focusing on, the impact on employment, we've always believed that new technology doesn't eliminate jobs. it changes the nature of work and ultimately creates new jobs. and that has been the case for the most part since the days of the ludi ititeludites. but an exponential curve go ahead flgoes flat and then upwa. what technology is doing now is not only extending our capacity to grip and lift and locomote and cognitive. and artificial intelligence into

the workplaces of the world are really having a very profound impact on employment. fox con in china which makes a lot of the smartphones and devices and so forth, they just announced that they're installing 2 million robots in the next three years. the same accelerated introduction of advanced automation that we've seen in the developed countries is now moving into the emerging markets and developing markets. and it's going to have a huge impact not only on employment opportunities but on the economic cycles that depend upon wage streams being used to purchase goods. >> all right. speaking about economic opportunities and employment, just about 60 years ago under president eisenhower, we began the interstate highway program which changed this country. it allowed people to move to suburbs, new suburbs existed. we don't have yet in this country a comparable interstate highway system of the internet,

to connect people in oklahoma, tennessee, whatever. i mean, they're still on dial-up in many places in this country. how would that change the economy of this country if we were to implement a truly assertive program to wire everyone up? >> allow me one personal note. i'm proud that my father, as a senator from tennessee, was the author of the interstate highway act. and i remember as a child accompanying im ining him to so hearings. i remember when they voted to make the signs green on the interstate. and in fact, that accomplishment was one of the reasons that our country undertook the effort to build what was once called the information superhighway. and actually, in the '90s, we passed legislation. the republicans at the time -- i don't think joe did this, but it was called the gore tax. and they stopped calling it the

gore tax because it turned out to have a lot of support. and it was designed to address exactly this question. to subsidize the connection to rural communities, to libraries, to every single public school so that the digital haves and digital have-nots at least in the public schools and the libraries will all be on equal footing and have this access. and it's made a positive difference. >> okay. i have one more question. i'm reading from chapter 3, "power and the balance," and it's very much to do with what's going on today. you talk about the tea party, the rise of fox news, and you also say this. "the inability of american democracy to make difficult decisions is now threatening the nation's economic future and with it the ability of the world system to find a pathway forward toward a sustainable future. the exceptionally bitter partisan divide in the united states is nominally between two major political parties. however, the nature of both democrats and republicans has

evolved in ways that sharpen the differences between them. talk about the president, the democrats, the republicans, how do we fix this? >> yeah, the partisan divide -- and you guys have talked about this on this show quite a bit. >> all the time. >> by the way, i quote your dad -- >> oh, you do? >> in a chapter. >> okay. >> he has been very influential with me. >> thank you. >> i think that, first of all, the scientists now know that there is, in human nature, a divide between what we sometimes call liberals and conservatives. and it gives an advantage, you can speculate, to the human species to have some people who are temperamentally inclined to try to change the future and experiment with new things and others who are temperamentally inclined to say, hey, wait a minute. not too fast. let's make sure we don't do anything rash here. and this divide is found in

every country, every culture, every ethnicity. it's part of our human makeup. and when these natural tendencies are accentuated with political ideologies or, for that matter, religious factions and the other divides that are sometimes used to -- for advantage, then it can get out of hand. our founders, james madison particularly, wrote about the dangers of faction. they understood this vulnerability in human nature. and we're now living in a period where these divisions are being exploited in ways that are extremely harmful to the country. our democracy has been hacked. it is not working the way our founders intended. and we need to fix it. the influence of big money, the naming of corporations as persons, the belief that might

can make right if there are large enough megaphones and enough lobbyists. that is a subversion of what our country is supposed to be. >> i see the big picture that you lay out. is there anything tangible the president can do, just to name one of the three factors of this? anything? >> you know, you can criticize the president on many fronts. and many of us have. i think you have to give him credit for trying over and over again to reach across that divide. and i've heard you guys do that regularly on this show. i think that we need more such efforts. i honestly believe, mika, that one of the healing forces for our politics is the progressive shift toward the internet. and i say that in spite of the fact people associate the internet with all this vitriol, actually i think it empowers individuals to connect with one another and to pursue reason and logic and to lift up ideas that gain support from larger groups of people. >> see what emerges.

former vice president al gore, thank you very much. the book is "the future: six drivers of global change" edited about by jon meacham, but we will not hold that against you. it's a fantastic book. i can't wait to read it. thank you very much. >> you covered him, didn't you? still ahead, exit interview. we'll talk to andrea mitchell about her conversation with secretary of state hillary clinton. we're back in just a moment. a with the spark cash card from capital one,

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up next, clinton versus biden in 2016? >> do you feel that joe biden, as the vice president, has the right of first refusal as it were within the party, or is it an open competition if you decide to run? >> well, american politics is always an open competition, but i have no -- >> andrea mitchell takes us through her candid interview with the outgoing secretary of state. that is next on "morning joe." [ nyquil bottle ] you know i relieve coughs, sneezing, fevers...

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i'm healthy enough, and my stamina is great enough, and i'll be fully recovered to do whatever i choose to do. but i don't have any decisions made. >> are you convinced that the original fall that led to the concussion, are you convinced that that fall was caused by dehydration? have your doctors ruled out any vascular event? >> oh, yeah, it was virus. i had a vicious viral attack that, you know, caused all of the unpleasant things that viruses can cause. i've certainly gained a great deal of knowledge and sympathy for people who go through that, whether it's on the athletic field or the battlefield or in your bathroom, as it was for me. >> welcome back to "morning joe" at 46 past the hour. a live look at the white house. here with us now, nbc chief foreign affairs correspondent and host of "andrea mitchell

reports," andrea mitchell. that was a candid report. >> and secretary of state john kerry. >> he's been confirmed. it's all over. >> you never know with senator kerry. >> exactly. that john. first of all, i'm just watching you interview her. you've been following her, you've been interviewing her since 1992, right? >> and what a change. that was at the peak of the very difficult time, the new hampshire primary, her husband was running and all of the issues arose, the draft issue. and she was at that point new to national politics. she was, of course, you know, a yale lawyer and the first lady of arkansas and a really experienced politician in that context, but this was really brutal. and the way she came through that, survived it, then took on health care, was beaten up in the first years of the white house over that, and all of the other things, and just look at her today. the most -- for the 11th year in a row, the most popular woman in the gallup poll in the world. >> how would you characterize,

since you've had that view of her and being able to talk to her over the years, all these different reincarnations and changes in her life and things that have happened to her and changes that she also brought on. how would you characterize how she's evolved as a woman and as a politician and as a statesman? >> in fact, one of the most interesting insights i have is having been with her in beijing in 1995 when as first lady, she did something that was -- not to paraphrase -- tea and cookies. she went and said at a human rights meeting at a women's conference in beijing, human rights are women's rights. women's rights are human rights. maybe i have the exact flipped, but the bottom line is she said that women's rights are human rights. and it was so controversial. everyone was up in arms over this. and it is now, you know, conventional wisdom. she has made it that. and she is leaving a legacy where the ambassador for women's rights, that position, that is

going to be institutionalized. the president is going to sign a memo that makes it part of diplomacy forever more. with afghanistan and everything else that's happening, what could be more profoundly moving? >> one of the things that's truly interesting about secretary clinton, you indicated -- and i can recall those days, the spring of '92, the new hampshire primary. >> it was rough. >> and the health care thing and the sort of fact that hillary clinton was always described as being a somewhat divisive figure within the clinton administration. then she runs for the senate. then she becomes secretary of state. and if you follow that career trajectory along the way, she picks up, retains admirers, admirers of her skill, her work, her character. interesting character and career development. >> well, one of the things she did -- i covered her 2000 senate race. she went to the senate and then there were 13 women senators. she went and actually got to know them. she didn't do interviews.

she was low profile. she was one of the group of freshmen. she took her time. she went on armed services. she got to know john mccain who remains a friend and admirer. so she admirer. she bridged the partisan divide in a way that no one would have predicted of her. it was i who asked her the question in the '92 campaign that elicited the tea and cookies response in chicago and the busy bee diner at 6:30 in the morning and she was meeting commuters. it was that very edgy hillary clinton. she has really changed. let me show you a little bit of when i asked her in the interview about 2016 and the non-sherman-like response. >> in 2012 in december, you told my friend barbara walters that you had no intention of running for president. >> right. >> in december of 2001, you told tim russert you had no intention of running for president. >> and i didn't. >> so things change.

but do you feel that joe biden as the vice president has the right of first refusal within the party, or is it an open competition if you decide to run? >> well, american politics is always an open competition. but i have no position on any of this. >> you know, she has not -- she says she has not made a decision. i've watched her a long time. i've never seen her more at easy with herself, more comfortable and confident. i have no doubt if health is not an issue and she says it's not that she is going to be running for president. >> yeah, i don't either. i don't know how she passes on and turns the people down that want her to. >> how close to the surface is it as the father of daughters, i very much want her to run. the iconography if i of president obama is a success and even her run in 2008 was hugely

important. how clear is she about her potentially historic role and the fact that as a woman she would become so important? >> it's part of the fabric of her life. she connects on that level in every single place she's visited, you know, 12 corrupts and almost a million miles. she always does a town hall meeting or a meeting with women. it's part of who she is, and she feels that historic role. i think when you look at it as a pragmatic political fact of life for democrats, notwithstanding the extraordinary role that will joe biden has played and continues to play as the partner to the president, this would be the one way to, after eight years of the obama administration, to be historic and somewhat of an outsider and a break-through candidate, and it would be one way to run against some new fresh blood in the republican party. >> boy, you know, we love the

secretary of state. but on a personal note, i'd feel badly for her if she were matched up against the greatest vice president in the history of vice presidents. >> have i floated my biden initiative that he gets to stay in washington permanently? >> sign me up. >> we talk about her historic roles and there are so many and so many she will still could have. there's one that people don't talk about as much and that's creating and holding on her shoulders bill clinton. where would he be without her? absolutely nowhere. it was all her. >> well, i think she would disagree with that. but that's another. >> >> we can agree to disagree. thank you so much. >> maybe a little more complicated than that. >> we'll see you at 1:00. >> actually, men are pretty simple. coming up, bill gates joins us on the set. we'll be back in a moment. all stations come over to mission a for a final go.

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rodriguez may have played his last game in a yankees uniform or in any uniform for that matter after a new report alleges he took performance-enhancing drugs as recently as last season. plus, bill gates joins us in the studio. we'll ask him what he's doing with the billions of dollars in

charitable donations. much more of "morning joe" in just a moment.

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good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. time to wake up, everybody, as you take a live look at new york city. welcome back to "morning joe." back with us on set we have jon meacham and mike barnicle. >> let's talk about a-rod. i'll show you the newspapers here in new york city.

this is daily news go a-way. the back says toxic waste. the new york post, void rage. the miami new times, which was a weekly newspaper in miami reports that a-rod's name appeared 16 times on lists from an anti-aging clinic that allegedly dispensed a variety of peds, performance -enhancing dru drugs. records obtained show a-rod who will turn 38 in july was connected with the clinic biogen na sis of america from 2009 through last season. just one year ago. he denied the allegations through a pr firm but espn reports the yankees and their executives are looking into ways to avoid the remaining five years and $114 million left on his contract. if the league disciplines him. >> really? can i ask you this? i did not know, i mean these steinbrenner boys are -- sticklers. what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong, right?

because this has nothing to do with them trying to void the contract with his poor performance last year, right? >> no, nothing to do with the fasth that they signed a player five years ago to a ten-year $275 million for a guy who would be 43 at the end of the deal. >> this isn't like the university of alabama in the 1990s when they found out a football coach was sexually harassing somebody, they said he better win at least 11 games the next year. i mean, this is a situational ethics on the yankees part, right? >> it is and they've been looking for a way to get rid of him for a long time but there is no way because no team will take that contract and eat it. they've been looking at every possibility because of this latest revelation to get themselves out of the deal. the one way they could do it if he remains out for this season hopefully to get him to retire and have insurance pick up the money because of his hip injury. >> a-rod is the entitlement

problem of the new york yankees, right? and any payroll because it's so big and just so hard to fix economically. i remember. >> are you trying to make this sports segment borg meache bori? >> this is what happened when ken saw landis told herbert hoover. >> oh, my god. >> he did it again. >> historian jokes. >> you're not going to see alex rodriguez in a yankee uniform again. you're more likely, given this report and the allegations made in this report to see alex rodriguez in a grand jury box before you see him in a batter's box. this in a sport that has the most advanced, most sophisticated, most threatening drug program available in all of our professional sports. they're going to be randomly testing this summer for hgh. that's how far advanced major

league baseball's testing program is. it's proof once again no matter how positive and strong the drug testing program is, players, athletes in every sport will always be looking for some extra players. some players, not all players. >> how do they get rid of them? can you just eat the contract? >> the only way they get rid of him is just pretend there's a couple of clauses in the contract that don't exist, stop paying him, it ends up in court and he'll be 45 years of age before there's adjudication of this. >> we just saw melky cabrera also appeared on the information that came out of this clinic in florida. >> to our headlines now. president obama has mobilized a full-on media blitz to push for his vision of comprehensive immigration reform. yesterday, the president went to nevada where the hispanic population is 20% to make his case for a bipartisan plan. >> the good news is, that for the first time in many years,

republicans and democrats seem ready to tackle this problem together. at this moment, it looks like there's a genuine desire to get this done soon, and that's very encouraging. but this time, action must follow. we can't allow immigration reform to get bogged down in an endless debate. we've been debating this a very long time. >> the president's speech stopped short of backing a plan outlined the day before by a bipartisan gang of eight, group of senators. the group which includes republican senator marco rubio has proposed a pathway to citizenship under the condition that more is done to secure the nation's borders. senator rubio yesterday did his best to sell conservative talk radio talk show host rush limbaugh to the idea. >> workplace enforcement, we need a visa tracking system.

by the way, the language of the bill has not even been drafted yet. these are just principles. this is going to be a challenge if in fact this bill does not have real triggers in there. there is not language in this bill that will guarantees that nothing else will happen unless these enforcement mechanisms are in place, i won't support it. >> i guess senator rubio working to get to the base there, but rush lim log has been highly critical of the president on this. >> from what i heard in reports yesterday though, they got along well and he actually praised rubio. i think what's happening right now is you have a lot of people on the right that are not certainly not just rush but a lot of people that are trying to get their arms around the fact there are going to be republicans supporting an immigration bill. the daily caller yesterday had a very interesting column talking about some conservative outlets are dealing with this bill creating a larger gulf between marco rubio's plan and the

president's plan. so they can, you know, wrap their arms around the rubio senate plan. and not seem like they're selling out to the president. but make no mistake of it, these two bills are fairly close together. and they're going to figure out a way to get it done. >> jon meacham, the president got obviously a good deal of the hispanic vote and he's got that support on his side. what about his sort of threat to push through his own legislation, if there's no action in congress? more of what we've seen with the president or does he have no choice? >> well, where's he going to push it through? he'll push it through the senate side, presumably or at least it would get filibusters. and it won't get through the house. so it seems to me to be kind of an empty threat. maybe there's some regulatory stuff he can do as he talks about on guns. what i thought was most encouraging this week was you had rubio who is someone who's

ambitions for the future are so self-evident and someone who's so linked to the base actually up there with chuck schumer. that is kind of new. it's kind of -- i don't think you would have seen that aern certain number of months ago. so you wonder where the republicans as the opposition party are going to give the administration a vote for two. if they don't find a way 0 give them a vote or two and that's why you ignoring the rush limbaugh stuff, you let rubio say whatever he wants to say. this is classic henry kissinger, brzezinski, negotiating. let him have a way out. let him keep the face and say if it's not got this, we're not going to possibly ever do this, rush. but in the end, if he's willing to give one of these votes to the president, then you have a chance of a real piece of legislation. >> i was just going to say, that's exactly what's happening right now is the right is trying

to figure out a way out. and rubio is trying to give them a way out of the corner that they've placed themselves in where they only get 27, 28% of the hispanic vote in the last presidential election. so, he's trying to give them a way out. i think conservatives are more than willing to take it. >> so one other issue where that strategy would not work would be on guns. a group of senators is working on a proposal to expand the nation's current laws on background checks for potential gun purchases. the group includes republicans tom coburn and mark kirk, along winning democrats chuck schumer and joe mansion. senator coburn says he wants the bill 0 keep guns out of the hands of people that are a danger to themselves, including criminals and the mentally ill. nra executive vice president wayne lapierre will testify before the senate today and has released his prepared remarks, which in part read "when it comes to the issue of background

checks, let's be honest. background checks will never be universal because criminals will never submit to them." meanwhile, this morning, "the new york times" is reporting that despite chicago's strict gun laws including bans on assault weapons and high capacity magazines, the city is still struggling to control gun violence. guns contributed to more than 500 homicides last year alone with at least 40 killings already reported this year. we were talking about this earlier, joe. how do you think this is going to pan out as we look forward on guns, something that you're stepping into a bit yourself? >> well, i think it's great news that you have tom coburn, an oklahoma conservative, who's been a champion on a lot of the conservative issues coming out and supporting universal background checks. this should be a very simple obvious thing for politicians on both sides of the aisle to do since 90% of americans support

these universal background checks. but in the strange political culture in which we live, there are some things that democrats can't do because of special interest groups and there are some things that republicans can't do, and one of the things republicans can't do is come out for sensible regulation and when it comes to guns. so i commend tom coburn and, of course, joe manchin is the hero in this from the very beginning. joe has been talking about sensible gun regulation. he's in west virginia and catching a lot of flack from it, but joe's not in favor of gun control. joe, like me, believes that americans have a right to keep and bear arms to, have handguns in their home, shotguns, hunting rifles to protect their families to go hunting. joe just doesn't believe that there should be no regulations and i think tom with his universal background cejka approach, i think we're going to see this moving toward passage. that's a good first step toward

sensible regulation of some of the most i think most extreme weapons and high capacity magazines. >> wil? i. >> as joe says, it's incredibly popular. the american public 90% of americans favor some kind of a background check. that chicago story you read, the city is such a fascinating case study in gun control because gun rights advocates say you have the toughest gun laws in country. handguns were outright banned till a couple of years ago, yet you had more than 500 homicides by guns is, 40 this year, a 14-year-old girl was killed in chicago yesterday. people who favor gun controls say this points out the need to have more uniform gun laws. the laws in chicago only apply to chicago. you can go next door and get guns or to the next state. chicago is place to keep an eye on because it makes the case for both sides. >> when we come back, microsoft chairman and co-founder bill gates joins us on set. also, "new york times" columnist

nick kristof who has traveled with gates to witness the vast impact of the bill and melinda gates foundation. next. first bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> thanks. a very busy weather morning. lots of people cleaning up from the destruction last night, tennessee and kentucky and now mississippi and alabama are being hit hard. wind damage was reported starting yesterday in texas, moved to arkansas and now pushing rapidly towards the eastern seaboard. we still have a chance of tornadoes. we only had four but even one more is too many. tornado watches interest the mountains of west virginia over the smokies of tennessee and just outside of atlanta. now atlanta is included in a tornado watch that was just issued. literally interest west virginia to georgia, these line of storms mean business but move through quickly. only take about a half an hour but will cause des tricks long along their path. the yellow area you have a risk of strong storms today from outside new york city to pittsburgh and everywhere down

through the eastern seaboard right till about midnight tonight, too. so it's not like it's going to end during the morning hours here. also don't want to forget our friends in iowa and wisconsin. a snowstorm, about 6 inches possible. these temperatures, it's going to be 670 again in d.c. you could get two days in a row of 70 degrees in the heart of winter. the fog is nasty from philadelphia northwards. airport delays. first the fog, and then the storms later on this evening. forecast, pretty crazy map. looks more like march than it would a january map. i'll have updates for you throughout the day on msnbc. you're watching "morning joe," we're brewed by starbucks. for your first day?

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welcome back to "morning joe." here with us now, co-chair of the bill and melinda gates foundation and co-founder of microsoft, maker of the surface, bill gates. very good to have you on the show this morning. today bill unveils his annual letters which features the findings of the foundation. also with us, columnist for "the new york times," nick kristof who has traveled to africa with bill gates, you traveled to two places with him. >> with bill only to africa. >> how is he as a traveling partner?

>> he has logistics down better than i do. buses actually go places. planes go places. it's better than hitching a ride with rare lords. >> i get it. he's organized to a t. >> 1993 that sounds like my dad. >> and you know, you just see traveling with him the incredible impact, not just that he's richer than god, but bringing business and civility to global aid. >> let's talk about what you do with all that money and how do you it because it can't be a simple task. i'm going to read part of your annual letter. you talk about the importance of measurement. i've been struck again and again by how important measurement is to improving the human condition. you can achieve amazing progress if you set a clear goal and find a measure that will drive progress toward that goal, any innovation whether it's a new vaccine or an improved seed can't have an impact unless it reaches the people who will benefit from it.

that's why in this year's letter i discuss how innovations in measurement are critical it finding new effective ways to deliver these tools and services to the clinics, family farms and classrooms that need them." where are you focusing your efforts in the coming year? >> well, global health is the biggest problem of the foundation. so we look at in the case of polio in the next six years, getting rid of the disease completely. and we've got to do really precise measurement of whether we're getting the vaccines out to all the kids because you've got to get it to more than 90% for us to get rid of that disease. so measuring the performance, which kids are being missed, why are they being missed, that's a thing that makes a difference between success and failure. >> you have so much technology at your fingertips today to be able to do that. you can reach children. you can reach families. you can reach villages that before almost didn't even appear to exist on the face of the earth. >> yeah, the maps we found were

improved a lot by using s satellite photograph if i. we put gps phones in and every three minutes we see their location and compare that to where they're supposed to go. the digital tools are actually making a difference in the poorest places in the world because they'll allow us to win that polio bat. >> mike barnicle? >> let's talk about delivery systems and technology. in reading a portion of your annual report from last year, i can recall years ago being in cambodia where nutrition is always a degree of difficulty beyond our imaginations, getting nutrition advice to people on the ground in places like africa, getting vaccines to people on the ground in places like africa. what is the degree of difficulty in that, given the fact that we are technologically amazing but they are in the dark ages? >> well, technology can make these things simpler.

for example, we have to keep vaccines cold, you know, you can come up with a magic thermos to keep them cold or actually change the vaccine. >> what's a magic thermos? >> you don't want to have to require electricity. we kind of take for granted that transport is reliable, communications are reliable and that you have electricity. and these clinics, you're going to have electricity very small part of the time. and so we have to have tools that work even in that environment. >> and so tell us a little bit more then in terms of back to polio, which fun fact, whose birthday is it today? >> this is franklin roosevelt's birthday just in case you were -- >> i know you wanted to -- nerd factor on this show, it's unbelievable. but there are ob obstacles, as well. >> saving the country is not enough to get your birthday mentioned? if feeding h

defeating hitler was not enough? >> the whole march of dimes was started by fdr. he got hollywood involved and that raised money to invent the original vaccine. that's why we can say we're close to finishing the job. >> and he got it in mid life. are you seeing -- are there any differences in terms of ages where it strikes around the world? >> yeah, if you get it where you're older the chance of being paralyzed is much higher. a and, of course, if you're crippled in a poor country, the effect on your life is quite horrific. so i've even met hashmin who was one of the last to get polio in india. she was 3 and didn't what you understand it was going to mean for her in the years ahead. >> you know, the foundation has these enormous resources that nick has written about and you travel the world helping millions of people. what happened internally with

you with regard to the foundation, the decision to do all of this? did you just wake up and say i'm tired of microsoft. i want to spend all this money on this? what happened. >> well, i've always believed e in abation. the only change here was to say how can innovation help those most in need? so instead of a computer

the work he's done on malaria, on aids. >> is it still comfortable that he's writing your obituary? >> it's a draft. >> i hope.

>> good morning, bill. part about government generosity is important to highlight because even asfully lan throwpy comes in, government aid is key. u.s. aid even though it's way below what it should be is over ten times what my foundation spends internationally. as we're looking at budget tradeoffs, the question of do vaccine vaccines -- do aids drugs keep people alive. do they remain a priority. that's really up for grabs. >> i think one of the frustrations is that people are turning away from humanitarian aid because they think basically it failed. we keep foreign money out there and people are still poor and dieing. in fact, this is an incredible success story. every year there are approximately 200,000 fewer kids who are dying because of vaccines, because of cleaner water, better wells. we talked about nutrition in

cambodia, increasingly we're putting micronutrients in flour, in cooking oil so that they improves their nutrition. >> young children too. >> makes an incredible impact. >> may i ask what you all have learned that's been most striking to you about american education as you've done this work? >> what's fascinating is that teachers get no feedback. that is, they may be really good at one part of their job and not another part of their job burks we haven't created a system where observers come in and watch what they do, where we ask the students about their perceptions so we have a sense we're taking the very best teachers and spreading those best practices. and difference between the best and the average is very dramatic. if we could move people up to be the top quartile, we would be by far the best in the world. our teachers get the least feedback of any and we've got to change that. we've got to help them learn

from each other. >> so i know you were involved with so many different global initiatives trying to sort of stem health crises around the world but if you had to look at just america and name one issue that you think really plagues us and could bring us down, semi health oriented, what would it be? >> well, i'd pick education if i was thinking broadly about america. it's our tool of equality. it has not improved. it's fallen behind other countries in a very big way. our dropout rates are very high. our economy, why do we have the unemployment we have? well, it's partly cyclical, but the unemployment rate for the college educated is below 4%. and so if we're not able to train people for the jobs, you're going to hit a limit that no matter how good the economy is, you're not providing opportunity. so education is what we spend the vast majority of our money

on here in the u.s. >> so you know more than a little bit about being online and stuff like that. give me online tech support. >> he got a new electronic type writer. >> give me online education in this country. what do you see? >> there's a lot of innovation taking place. core sarah, edex, at the high school level, khan academy and how do you combine these brilliant lek yourures online the ability to do problems that are personalized where it gives you advice on wa you need to review with the classroom, the classroom's important to motivate you, to help you when you're confused but create the hybrid that combines those in the best way. it's really exciting we're experimenting with that and it's very timely because college educations are becoming more

expensive. at the same time that we need a much higher percentage of kids to go to college and so there's going to be big changes in a sector that is really stayed the same for the last 50 years. >> before we go, can i ask you a question about apple? >> okay. >> yeah. s i'm just wondering how you think microsoft's approach to innovation differs from apple, and is it superior? >> well, microsoft and apple have been in the pc business together for decades, competing with each other. microsoft is more software centric, products like office but there's so much more that we're doing with. apple has been more hardware centric and done very strong hardware design. now they're trying to do more software. we're doing a little bit more hardware. >> i like the surface a lot. >> it's the benefit of a tablet and a pc brought together so you don't have to think do i take my

pc, my tablet. >> do i take it the 50,000 charges that might apply but not to what i need right now. >> the competition has driven that market forward. it's amazing to think okay, in five years, your walls, you're going to be able to use a pen. it will watch what you're doing. so you know, i think the opportunity for both companies is pretty big. >> hmm. interesting answer. very safe. very careful. >> although i like that you're using bill gates as your help desk. >> tech support. >> i've got a couple questions for you about this thing before i throw it against the wall. >> very high brow service. >> now, your products, when you drop them three feet, do they break into a million pieces? >> they better not or else we'll have to give you a new one. >> another product i know of does. >> you can read bill's entire letter at bill's letter.com. >> a little unstable. >> i'm on steroids today. nick kristof stay with us. we're back in just a moment.

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this is the first trip for some of these players. but a few of them were here a couple of years ago for a pickup game on my birthday. >> i mean, seriously, david letter mann? we love you as we take a live look at new york city. how long can david letter mann use that one clip of george w. bush with a basketball? >> he's got a couple. >> remember the door, joe? remember president bush trying to open the door in beijing and it wouldn't open? there's a bunch of them. >> nick, i want to talk to you something fascinate in the news. when you see in egypt basically the muslim brotherhood is in the same position that the mubarak

government was in a couple of years ago. this group, they've suffered even worse branding over the past two years than the american republican party because they were supposed to be the moderate arm of the muslim brotherhood. they weren't going to be involved in politics. it's really disturbing just how badly things have gone for them and egypt. now generals are saying that three suez cities are on the verge of anarchy. how long till the military just steps in and takes over? >> i don't know. i mean the big problem is not for the muslim brotherhood for egypt as a whole. i think general sisal is warning of the potential collapse of the egyptian state. i certainly hope that they'll come back from the brink and the egyptian army still has a certain amount of weight. i think it's trying to put the genie back in the bottle. if that doesn't happen, then i

think the military might indeed intervene. but boy it's a mess. including the city where the muslim brotherhood was founded. >> when you see that actual, their buildings and the city where they were founded have come under attack, it's hard to believe that this movement in egypt and that mohamed morsi could have miscalculated as badly as they did. >> he miscalculated in exactly the way that hosni mubarak did. he overreached. he came in with a reasonable mandate. and if he had tried to reach out and work with other elements within the state then things might have worked out very differently. because he's overreached, he is now quasi peril lous in some places and the economy is tanking. >> you know, the story of the egyptian people and the egyptian middle class is a fascinating story. they have obviously, the rest of

the arab world follows what egypt does. one-third of arabs in the world are in egypt. they've always been the leader of that civilization. but this is -- these are people that haven't been swept up in islamic radicalism through the years. i remember the brutal attacks of tourists in luxor back in the late 1990s. it so offended the egyptian middle class that it was seen as a terrible setback within the ranks of al qaeda in the long-term. >> that's right. a lot of people voted for the muslim brotherhood and voted for other islamic parties not because they particularly wanted sharia islamic law but because the mus lim brotherhood was a little more clean and was going to stand up for ordinary people. and morsi blew that mandate and you know, egypt is now at risk as a result. it's not just egypt in the middle east. jordan is an incredible mess, as

well. iraq. >> but egypt is the dominant force in the middle east and the arab world. port said at the tip of the canal today basically. >> declaring independence. >> wanting to secede from egypt. you've got the army standing back from intervening in port said and other cities. what is the route of the respect for the army and the disrespect clearly for the national police force? >> well, the police have always been corrupt. every policeman that you ever run into, i remember that was true when i lived there, it's been true since, they -- they're corrupt. they were misused in the tahrir crisis. so they have lost authority. the army has a little more authority and at the end of the day, egyptians are really concerned about this. they want the state to survive. and there is some precedent for other countries. look at indonesia after suharto fell. it came close to the brink and

then pulled back. albania, romania after 1989. so sometimes there is this sort of shock to the system and people look into the abyss and come back, and boy, i hope that's the case for egypt. >> let us hope. nick, what are you working on right now? >> i'm about to go off on a book leave with my wife. so i'm going to be traumatized by not writing the column for the next few months. readers may celebrate. but i'm going to be traumatized. >> tell us about your book that you're going to be working on. >> it's going to be about how to make a difference. going to be the emerging science of what it is to make a difference in the world and about the psychic benefits one gets from trying to engage in the world and to embrace a cause larger than ones self-. excited by it. >> when i take a book leave, joe, is to read one. >> exactly. choose the right one to read.

>> that's what ann tells us, much to her regret. nick, thank you so much. we can't wait for you to come back on and talk about your next book. >> i look forward to it. >> coming up next, business before the bell and we're going to be asking weather blackberry can save itself. straight ahead. [ female announcer ] when a woman wears a pad she can't always move the way she wants. now you can.

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welcome back to "morning joe" as you take a live look at a wet and windy times square. let's go to business before the bell with brian sullivan. new numbers in on the growth of the economy. not a dramatic dip if you just look at the number itself, but from where we are right now to where it was in the first quarter, quite sacrificing, quite a downturn.

>> let's hope the economy is not running on empty. good morning. this is a bit of a surprise. gdp for the fourth quarter, the first look coming in at a negative .1%. it was the first drop in the economy below zero since the second quarter of 2009. the big drop though and i'm going to hedge that number a little bit, the big drop was twofold. number one, 15% decline in federal government expenditures, a lot of concern about defense. that could be fiscal cliff related. remember we talked about it a lot. people froze up perhaps. we also saw a drop in exports. good news in that report is that personal disposable income rose above 8%. it was up $236 billion, and this morning, we have the adp private sector payroll jobs numbers showing a gain of 192,000 jobs. >> brian quickly, what did the personal savings rate go up to

if. >> the personal disposable income was up $236 billion, a gave 8.7 or 8.18%. so that's a positive. >> great news. >> people making more money. we've got to see if this is an anomaly because of the fiscal cliff in the fourth quarter. everything else has been pretty positive so fingers crossed for the economy going forward into no doubt about it, fingers crossed, the first drop in three years, quite a drop from 3%. blackberry getting back into the game in a big way? what's going to be new about this blackberry? >> joe, it's a big deal here. this is the first real all-touch screen. they tried one in the past. it didn't work at all. blackberry 10 launches today. all your viewers know the problems that research in motion has had. once great company, has been struggling. some people calling this a make or break product launch. like the economy, time and auto

correct will tell. >> really quickly, does it have the actual -- do you have to do everything on the touch screen or does it still have the keyboard? >> they're going to release two versions. the one out today is likely to have no physical keyboard, then they're going to release -- some people still love that physical keyboard. >> you need that physical keyboard. thanks a lot, brian. greatly appreciate it. some interesting news. let's hope it isn't an anomaly. when we come back, the fascinating package by jim miklaszewski. stick around. we'll be right back.

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a u.s. army soldier is getting a second chance after suffering terrible injuries in the iraq war. jim miklaszewski reports on how modern science and a team of doctors is helping. brandon morocco wheeled himself into a packed news conference in baltimore. what's remarkable, he did it with a pair of arms he received just six weeks ago in a double transplant operation. >> you know, i never really

accepted the fact that i didn't have arms. so now that i have them again, it's almost like it never happened. >> as an army private in iraq, he lost both legs and arms to a roadside bomb. the military's first quadruple amputee to survive. but he never gave up hope and amazingly considered himself lucky. >> i was still alive. that's all that mattered to me at the time. >> for nearly four years, he suffered through the excruciating pain of therapy at walter reed hospital. >> the hurts real bad. >> driven, he mastered his artificial limbs all four of them. but that would never be good enough. >> i hated not having arms. i was all right with not having legs. not having arms takes so much away from you out of even your personality. >> so last december, a team of doctors at johns hopkins hospital working 13g hours straight connected miles of nerves, blood vessels and

tendons to transplant two arms from a deceased anonymous donor and also transplanted the donor's bone marrow to reduce threat of rejection. morocco's progress is nothing short of miraculous. and the first time he moved his arms was a bit of a shock. >> one of my friends was just like freaking out. did you do that on purpose? >> now, scratching his nose is second nature. his goal is to some day compete again in sports but most of all drive his car. >> he's stubborn in a good way meaning he's not going to let anybody tell him he can't do something. >> he makes it clear nothing's going to stop him, and so far, nothing has. >> you know, life always gets better when you're still alive. >> it's incredible story. coming up next, what we learned today. we'll be right back. isn't because i never go out and enjoy the extra large, extra cheese world we live in. it's because i do. introducing the new weight watchers 360 program. join for free and expect amazing.

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five seconds. three, two, one. standing by for capture. the most innovative software on the planet... dragon is captured. is connecting today's leading companies to places beyond it. siemens. answers. welcome back to "morning joe." it's time to talk about what we learned today, mike, what did you learn? >> joe, i'll tell you, i learned that the next time al gore is on with us, i'm going to insist that someone be present to provide sub titles to what he's talking about because he was so far above my head, i didn't pick up on it. >> low low bar though to do that. >> that is a low bar. >> yeah, i don't think that's -- >> jon, what did you learn? into it was a big morning. you had al gore talking about the future, bill gates talking about eradicating disease.